Jon Gaunt: Good Afternoon, Tommy
Tommy Robinson: Tommy Good Afternoon, Jon
Jon Gaunt: Tell me then Tommy, let’s start first of all with the latest controversy. The British Army, where did you meet those guys
Tommy Robinson: I met them at Watford gap services. I don’t understand the controversy around it. I met them at Watford Gap services, there were four coaches. They asked for a photo. I took my photo with them, they were very respectful, none of them mentioned politics, none of them mentioned anything about Islam. They’re 17 years old Jon, ok, many of them. I started my activism 10 years ago when they were seven years old. How much do they really know about me? Probably not a lot, probably only recent actions. And they’ll probably know I was wrongfully imprisoned and unlawfully imprisoned for talking about paedophile rape gangs.
So that’s probably their knowledge, their level knowledge. They probably see me as an activist, I am a journalist, but the probably see me as they see anyone else who is in the public domain, the public sphere, and they asked for a photo. That’s it. I don’t see what the big controversy is around.
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Jon Gaunt: Is it true they were shouting “whoa Tommy Robinson”, was there chanting going on?
Tommy Robinson: There was there chanting going on Jon, can I just read you, let me read this from the military website: “Respect for Others: both those inside and outside of our organisation is not only a legal obligation; it is a fundamental principal of the freedom our society enjoys. Teams that embrace diversity, and value each individual contribution and viewpoint are always stronger for it. We must treat everyone we encounter as we would wish to be treated” that’s from the army website, that’s from their own guidelines. They treated me with respect. I treated them with respect. I really don’t see the issue here.
Jon Gaunt: Was there no conversation about Islam or politics, are you sure?
Tommy Robinson: None, none at all. And I actually said to the young lads, I actually said, I don’t want you to get in trouble for this. There’s a picture now of 24/20 young men. I had my picture taken with hundreds. Hundreds. Every single military member took their picture. I’ve actually been contacted today by three different regiments who are telling me to “come to their barracks” and they want to come outside and have their photo taken.
Jon Gaunt: So you must have been shocked then when the Army said they were going to investigate and they took their phones off of these young lads.
Tommy Robinson: It’s unbelievable; they’ve seized their phones. They’ve had a photo taken with someone. With, I just can’t understand. You know where this has come from? The Muslim Council of Britain. Muslim Council of Britain has made a complaint and the army are pandering to them.
Just let people understand, the Muslim Council of Britain, a few years ago, signed a statement, a declaration, which said British armed forces are legitimate targets for suicide bombings in Iraq. This is who they are pandering too.
Now there would be no calls for anyone to be disciplined or investigated if they had their photo taken with Jeremy Corbyn. Jeremy Corbyn has said Hamas who are a proscribed terrorist organisation are his friends. He’s been to the funerals of Islamic jihadi terrorists who killed multiple Jews. I really don’t understand. It’s pure hypocrisy. It’s the establishment coming down full weight, they want to make me a pariah. They don’t want it to be acceptable to talk about me, to be seen with me, mention me. They want you to lose your career your pension and your job if you do so, to send a warning to the rest of the country. That’s what this is.
Tommy Robinson: It’s going to completely backfire. I think we’re probably at, I haven’t checked, two hours ago our petition was at fifty thousand people. When we see instances of this, for example Sky news ran big headlines ten thousand people had signed a petition, they had it up for a week, ten thousand people had signed a petition to have a political leader’s debate.
Jon Gaunt: Yeah, that’s Right.
Tommy Robinson: And that headline went all over their news. Well fifty thousand people have signed a petition in less than 12 hours.
Jon Gaunt: What is the petition question?
Tommy Robinson: The petition question is that there should be no witch hunt against any member of our armed forces for taking a picture with whoever they please. Now they say again that the narrative being pumped by the media is that these young men have had their photo taken with “far right activists” Ok?
They give no evidence, none of them can ever give any evidence or any backup to what makes me far-right.
Jon Gaunt: Do you deny that you’re far-right?
Tommy Robinson: Jon my Views are very liberal, very liberal. In the sense that the core tenants and the teachings of Islam are misogynistic; anti-women ok. They’re homophobic. I’m pro women’s rights, I’m pro-gay rights. I’m pro free speech, and that is something Islam does not allow: free Speech. It does not allow freedom of religion, because you cannot leave. It is punishable by death.
This is what I don’t understand: the army has come out and made a statement about our core teachings and beliefs and our core values. I don’t understand how Islam fits into those values.
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Jon Gaunt: Ok, so the Army are the hypocrites, the army are far right. The army top brass, they are the people who are being fascist about this and stopping free speech. Is that what you’re saying?
Tommy Robinson: The Army top Brass, so that we can understand is Jon, we’ve just seen the news in the UK. When Khalid Masood done the Westminster bridge attack, the top ranking metropolitan police officer sat in his car.
Jon Gaunt: Absolutely.
Tommy Robinson: And locked his doors with two other officers and they watched as one of their colleagues – and they swear an oath—…
Jon Gaunt: Now wait a minute, two of them were not police officers but the general point is right. Sir Craig Mackey basically sh*t his pants let’s be honest about this.
Tommy Robinson: Sh*t his pants.
Jon Gaunt: And didn’t get out of his car. Didn’t get out the car. It’s a disgrace. He should have his knighthood taken away from him, he shouldn’t get his pension, and he should be booted out of the police. I’m with you on that one Tommy Robinson.
Tommy Robinson: I’m comparing him, also to the people driving this campaign within the army. Your average army officer, your average police officer would have fought and died next to their fellow comrades. Now the average police officer whether they were scared or no, now we get told in this country we get told to run and hide. Yeah, run and hide.If you look at Israel…
Jon Gaunt: Now is that Islam, or is that Islamist. Now I want to ask you this question, are you anti-Islam or are you anti-Islamist. Or is there no difference in your world view?
Tommy Robinson: I’m pro freedom, and if you’re pro freedom you’re going to clash with Islam. Because the more Islam, the less freedom. Islam doesn’t allow freedom. Now when we say Islamist, this is a whole new word that’s been created. And it’s been created in our generation so that people feel comfortable criticising Islam. That’s how weak we’ve become.
When you look at previous world leaders, they never spoke about Islamism or Islamist. They didn’t talk about interpretations of Islam. They called it out for what it was: a warlike religion and warlike ideology.
It’s because of my liberal views that I oppose Islam, I oppose the fascism, the violence.
Jon Gaunt: Here’s a very simple question, I want a pretty simple answer to this if I can, there’s so much I want to get to on “Shooting from the Lip” here on Sputnik. Is Islam incompatible with 21st century tolerant Britain?
Tommy Robinson: Yes, completely. And that’s not saying that every Muslim is incompatible with living in our countries, because the majority of Muslims do not take the scripture literally.
Jon Gaunt: Right
Tommy Robinson: Many Muslims treat Islam like a buffet, they take the bits they like and leave the bits they don’t like.
Jon Gaunt: It’s a bit like Roman Catholics used to be.
Tommy Robinson: Similar, yeah but the problem comes when a Muslim wants to live as the prophet Mohamed did, because he was violent, he murdered, he raped, he pillaged.
Now if they believe he is, and they take the scripture word for word, that is the problem.
So the European court of human rights did an in depth study into Sharia. And they found that Sharia, which is Islam, is incompatible with western freedom and democracy due to their views on women, their views on homosexuals. This is not obviously my, this is the Court of European Rights has done this.
So it is incompatible.
Jon Gaunt: OK
Tommy Robinson: The ideology is like oil and water Jon, it’s like oil and water.
Jon Gaunt: OK
Tommy Robinson: And the problem I have is our authorities and leaders knew this before they imported it into their 1400 years of history, all of the top clergy, top military, top political leaders whether it be Sir Winston Churchill whether it be Sir William Gladstone. They have all spoken honestly about Islam. We have entered into an era of deception where the people whose job it is to educate the public about dangers and threats to our society and our people are actually deceiving us.
Tommy Robinson: Yeah or they’ll be put in prison actually now, that’s where we’re heading. That’s how they have everyone. These tactics that they’re doing now to these young army recruits is part of that.
Jon Gaunt: OK
Tommy Robinson: They want everybody else in the army to see “this is what we’ll do to you if you show your support or you express your freedom”. They want these young men to sign up to our armed forces, to go and sacrifice and give their lives, fighting and suffering in faraway fields for other people’s freedom and democracy and rights in other countries. Yet they want to take theirs away in their own country.
And when they come and walk the streets of our country they’re expected to just walk and tolerate and rub shoulders with returning Jihadist fighters from Isis.
And they can’t understand why members of our armed forces, who are working class who have been ill-treated, who have been forgotten and neglected by the establishment would show any support and actually have some common ground with myself.
Jon Gaunt: Let’s also now talk about Sky News. Is it true? I’ve watched videos, Jason’s and yours. Is it true you’re now suing them and is it true they’ve issued an apology? Tell people very quickly what the background is to that.
Tommy Robinson: So Sky News asked me in for a sit down exclusive interview. Now I knew full well and I know full well what the mainstream media are. And they’re not there to report the news. They’re there to either try and destroy you, try and discredit you or give a different narrative or agenda they have prior to the interview.
Jon Gaunt: That’s correct, go on.
Tommy Robinson: Before you sit down and give them questions and answers, they know where they want to curve it and they have their goals they want to do with it. So the only reason I sat down with them was to share this with the public. So I secretly recorded the entire interview.
Jon Gaunt: Let me just clarify that, they didn’t know you were recording?
Tommy Robinson: No
Jon Gaunt: OK carry on.
Tommy Robinson: I then waited for them to air the interview and see the headlines. And I see the heading that says “Tommy Robinson Doesn’t care if he incites fear against Muslims.” I never said that. And then what they done was they put a voiceover that said: Jason Farrell said, “I sat down, and I asked Tommy Robinson about his views over causing fear” he never asked me that. I was actually answering a question about a video in Holland in 2007.
Jon Gaunt: And you can prove this, you can prove it can you?
Tommy Robinson: The whole lot is on camera. So they actually take my answer to a different question. They put a voiceover on it and they make it look like they’re answering the question he puts the voiceover in. They absolutely took out of context what I said and they didn’t just do that, but they changed two of the words on the headline that ran. So I was talking about a video. So I said I don’t care if it, the video, causes fear to the young girls, yeah, as long as it educates them and warns them about rape. They changed the word “it” to “I” and “incites” to “incite”. So there is a very different context.
So then it’s a very different context, I don’t care if “I incite”; so it’s talking about me and myself and my views. That’s what they changed the wording to. Rather than me saying I don’t care if it, a video, incites fear of young girls into, the young girls, they made it is as though I was talking about my views causing fear against Muslims and this is all one hundred percent evidential by the video I put up online. And not one media outlet in this country has reported on that.
Jon Gaunt: Well we’re reporting on it here on Sputnik, so tell me then, you threatened to sue them. Have they apologised or are you still suing them?
Tommy Robinson: I’ve got a meeting with lawyers on Tuesday. What they’ve done is they’ve corrected their lies. They told six lies in the first 60 seconds of their report. Six Lies.
Jon Gaunt: Jesus.
Tommy Robinson: Six nonfactual things about me, about me about other rapes, it was all lies. So they corrected them in an apology. But they haven’t said we apologise for cut and pasting different questions. They invented a story.
They’re there to report the news, not invent the news.
Jon Gaunt: Absolutely
Tommy Robinson: No they haven’t apologised. They’ve actually deleted the video, it’s gone. It took them 8 days; it had hundreds of thousands of views. But the only good thing from this Jon, is that my video showing what they’ve done has had well over 1.5 million views. Their video only had 200k anyway.
This is why the mainstream media need to realise that the monopoly is no longer in their hands. It’s in ours, it’s in the public. Citizen journalism and individual people sharing articles is what will bring them down. They don’t even realise the damage they’re doing to themselves, their credibility and their trust, when they do hatchet jobs and attempted smear campaigns like this. Because the public now, thanks to social media, see straight through it.
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Jon Gaunt: Ok Tommy, Let’s move on. Let’s talk about the court case. I called you an idiot for getting caught in what I thought was an establishment trap. Are you offended?
Tommy Robinson: No Jon. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and you know what? I don’t believe I was an idiot in this case, but sometimes I have been so it’s not a problem for me. As I said I’ll debate and talk anyone, people can disagree with my views my tactics. I’m there to talk, I’m there to be criticised.
Jon Gaunt: Wasn’t it obvious you were going to get arrested? I mean I talked to you before at the previous one, I said “Tommy be careful” and then this happened. And I thought, that’s what they want they want him off the street so he can’t talk when these men are convicted or not. It was a kind of stupid thing to do. To fall into what they wanted. Don’t get me wrong, after that you were treated abysmally and we’ll get onto that in a moment. And I just wonder if you regret it at all, that you’ve fell into their trap?
Tommy Robinson: Jon, I’ve had this conversation recently with my son. More people than ever spoke about the molestation, the rape and the grooming of young British girls at the hands of these young jihadi rape gangs, more people than ever. The video of me talking about this had 5 million views over the weekend. Over one weekend!
The whole world ended up talking about this which is my goal. What I want to do is raise awareness for what is happening in this country.
Jon Gaunt: But was it worth putting yourself and your family through two and a half months in prison? Was that the right thing to do as a father? And did you not ever, as you sat in that cell think “Hang on, I could have prejudiced this trial” and these alleged monsters, could have got away with it, therefore I could be betraying the actual victims I’m trying to help?
Tommy Robinson: Ok so I’ll start on the first one. About a week ago when I was going to court my son saw that I was possibly going back to jail. And he was very upset.
Jon Gaunt: How old is he Tom?
Tommy Robinson: He’s nine, and I’ve got a daughter who’s eleven and a daughter who is seven.
So I sat him down and explained to him that: “Son, you see your sister, there are a lot of young girls her age who are her age who are being taken in this country and terrible things are being done to them. Terrible things. Now when I go back to court, I have the option to either play the establishment line where I’ll walk out of court. Or I’ll read a statement that will highlight and bring more awareness to what has happened to these young girls than ever before.”
And I said, “if I could do that son, and I was taken away for weeks or months. If that happens it means I’m not going to see you for months but if just one girl, one eleven year old girl like your sister, if one of their lives is protected and changed. What would you want me to do?
“If one girl like your sister, is in a terrible scared situation and this awareness would just maybe change one girl. What would you want me to do?”
And that’s asking a nine year old, he said: “Help the girl” So, I know what I’m going to do. I know what I need to do. I don’t want to be in jail, I want to be at home with my children.
And when you talk about would I risk prejudicing the trial, when I went outside that court I was arrested on the Friday, I was sent to prison in a kangaroo court.
Now what I’ve done is I’ve got the transcripts. I was arrested on the Friday, the next time the court re-entered, it was Tuesday. I got the transcripts from that Tuesday Jon. I’ve got them in black and white writing, everything that was said in court. There was a discussion between Judge Marson who was the man who sent me to prison. And the head of the CPS and they both say we have now watched Tommy Robinson’s video in its entirety and even if the jury watched it, there is nothing he says that could prejudice this trial.
I’ve got that in black and white. Yet I’ve got two charges added to me from the old bailey that are saying I could have possibly have prejudiced this trial, even though I’ve got this in black and white.
Jon Gaunt: Are you alleging that the establishment are definitely trying to stitch you up and get you in the nick? So if you are going to go you may as well make a statement from the court to illustrate why you’re making this sacrifice. It’s your Nelson Mandela moment, isn’t it?
Tommy Robinson: Completely Jon. That weekend, on that Tuesday, Judge Marson the judge that sentenced me to prison was made aware, and I’ve got it in black and white transcripts, which I’ll be identifying to the Old Bailey judge, he was made aware that three journalists that weekend breached the same reporting restriction that he sent me to prison for breaching.
None of them have faced persecution, one of them Lizzie Deardon from the independent, actually refused to remove their article, refused I’ve got it in black and white on the transcript, and she didn’t breach one argument, she breached two.
I was sent to prison for breaching section 4 of the reporting restriction act. Now if you read the law, the law actually states, which I read before I got to court that day. The law states that the judge has no power to put reporting restrictions on information that is already in the public domain.
Jon Gaunt: Ok, why did you plead guilty?
Tommy Robinson: I didn’t plead guilty Jon. This is another lie.
Tommy Robinson: No the reason why I was released from prison was because I was not asked to plead guilty or not guilty. I was also not told —
Jon Gaunt: No it was reported that on that day, on that Friday, you pleaded guilty is that incorrect?
Tommy Robinson: That is 100% factually incorrect. I did not plead.
Jon Gaunt: You did not plead and you got sent down within about 5 hours yeah?
Tommy Robinson: Actually within 10 minutes.
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Jon Gaunt: And is that why you say it was a kangaroo court because they didn’t even give you the opportunity to plead?
Tommy Robinson: Well the head judge in this country at the high court, actually if you read his report of what he said about Judge Marson and his action that day. Then it absolutely hammered it and tore it to pieces. He said it was an unjust, unfair trial that showed prejudice towards me.
Jon Gaunt: So why does that mean you’ll end up going back to prison at the Bailey in a couple of weeks’ time, I don’t understand.
Tommy Robinson: Because legal precedents show yeah… so there was another case of a gentleman called West.Which is how the law works, under legal precedent.
Jon Gaunt: Yeah of course it does.
Tommy Robinson: Now under West’s case, one thing was done illegal in his case that meant his trial was prejudiced. Five were done in mine now in his one, was done, in his case when it was done; he had his conviction quashed like I did. He was not sent for a retrial. So why am I being sent for a retrial? a) That’s one question. Why is it at the Old Bailey? Before the head judge of the Old Bailey: this is for talking into an iPhone and reading facts that are already in the public domain. The rest of the cases at the old bailey are terrorism, it’s the biggest court in our land. It makes no sense.
Jon, when you go through this there’s 70 years of history, never has any journalist ever been sent to prison for breaching any reporting order.
Just so I can give you two cases. Rod Liddle breached a reporting restriction on the Stephen Lawrence murder trial. One of the most famous murder trials, racist murder trials, in our country, and he almost collapsed the case. He was taken to court for contempt, the same charge as me; he got a four thousand pound fine.
The Daily Mirror breached the Levi Bellfield murder trial. They actually had to discharge the jury, and then the victim, a young child was murdered. Her family had to…
Jon Gaunt: Milly Dowler, yeah.
Tommy Robinson: They had to go through another court case and another thing. Now because of that, which is far worse than my case, even if I did, which I didn’t, break the law, but because of that they were given a ten thousand pound fine.
Every case and every example previous to this has never been anyone sent to prison. I have spent two and a half months in solitary confinement, held in the wrong categorization, held in solitary confinement which is illegal already, and for a civil crime, it’s a civil crime. The crime they sent me to prison for is a civil crime.
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Jon Gaunt: Ok, how long do you think you’re going to go down for this time then?
Tommy Robinson: It can be up to two years. I was already offered if I pled guilty and apologised then I will not go to prison. And I’m sorry but I can’t plead guilty, it’s what I said to my wife, I cannot do it, no matter what, I can’t do it.
Jon Gaunt: Hasn’t she had enough of you though Tommy? You must be really getting on her proverbials.
Tommy Robinson: When I got my first phone call from HMP Hull the first question I asked was, “have you had enough yet?” because obviously this doesn’t just affect me, it affects my entire family. But at the same time Jon I put things into perspective here. I look at young men who join our military and join our armed forces. I spent two and a half months in a prison cell. Yeah it caused me issues, yeah it caused me problems when I came out, but the way I view it, young men go away and get bullets fired at them every day. To stand up for what they want to be.
Jon Gaunt: Ok tell me what it was like in prison. Is it true that you only ate tinned tuna that you were scared people were spitting in your food or worse? I mean were you kept in total solitary and was that your choice? And what about this thing that you were next to the prayer room? Was a lot of this hyperbole or is it true?
Tommy Robinson: No it’s one hundred percent factual. I was in HMP Hull, where I was completely fine, completely settled. They didn’t allow me to be put with the main prison population, even though Hull only has a 7% Muslim population. They moved me to the hospital where they kept me separate from other prisoners. But what they did was the prison officers would take me out of my cell probably three or four hours a day. I’d talk to them, I’d socialise with them. I’d have some normality with the prison staff. They’d take me out into the garden when they’d have their breaks and I’d sit with them. So some normality.
So people understand the British prison systems. For my offense you should be in an open prison. Your cell door gets unlocked at 8 o’clock in the morning, it closes at 6 o’clock at night. You work you have the gym, you have snooker tables, you have computers, you have education. I wasn’t allowed any of those things in Hull. But I was allowed a few hours a day out of my cell and I was fine.
They moved me from Hull, to Onley prison. Onley prison has the largest Muslim population of any C Cap prison in our country. That is not a mistake. I then get to Onley, I’m forcefully put in segregation and solitary confinement. I did not ask for protection. Not once. I actually asked very day to be taken out of solitary confinement and the reason I done that Jon, is because I spent 5 months in solitary confinement again in 2012. When I come out of custody that time I was diagnosed with PTSD. I never spoke publicly about that. It’s all on my medical records. It’s all now come out. The reason I didn’t speak publicly about it is that a) it’s embarrassing. How can I try and compare something I have with being locked up in a room to what soldiers get fighting in wars. I never spoke publicly about that, I never wanted to. It’s only because it’s come out now in my medical record in my appeal.
The prison service and the government are fully aware of my medical history and my medical records. They know what putting me in solitary would do.
Jon Gaunt: So they were torturing you, is that what you’re saying?
Tommy Robinson: One hundred percent. I did not see another prisoner from when I got put in Onley, for two months, I did not see anyone; I did not talk to anyone. I did not see anyone only time they let me out of my cell was for my shower which is when you get your phone call was between half 12 and half 1. My children were at school, my wife was at work, I couldn’t even speak to them. All of this was orchestrated and organized in a way to put me in a position where they could mentally break me. There can be no other explanation. I’m yet to see why the media aren’t asking the government why you did move him from Hull to Onley. Why was he held in these conditions?
Because, Jon you have to understand that I was not some once I was put into Solitary Confinement, you then don’t get out of your cell. Your cell door opens and they hand you your food. My food is given there with my name on it. It was prepared by Muslims. 30-40% of the prisoners are Muslims, they’re all shouting at me “how’s your food Tommy?”
You can get anything smuggled into a prison. If they wanted to get poison, if they wanted to get anything you can get it smuggled in.
I’m not going to die in a cell through eating prison food because and I was very aware of that, all I could eat was tuna. Six tins of tuna a week.
Tommy Robinson: I have a legal meeting on Tuesday about three or four different cases like this.
Jon Gaunt: So what about these rumours? Will you join UKIP?
Tommy Robinson: So, UKIP, I think they’ve missed the ball here. And I respect Gerard Batten. I respect Lord Pearson. I think when I sit down and listen to Batten I think that’s the first politician I’ve heard, other than Anne Marie Waters as well of course, that’s the first politician I’ve heard that would make me go out and vote. So yeah, I would join UKIP, I do support Gerard Batten under his leadership…
Jon Gaunt: But they won’t let you now because of the rules.
Tommy Robinson: Because of the rules but they don’t have rules. I could be an ex IRA fighter and I could join UKIP. That’s the truth, there’s no rule to stop that.
Jon Gaunt: So let me get this clear, you would join if they want you.
Tommy Robinson: If they did, I would join. If they don’t make that decision I’m going to have a meeting with them, I’m going to evaluate other situation.
Because I believe there is a movement that has grown, and I believe it has to be politicised. And if UKIP are willing to do that, then brilliant because it needs politicized.
Jon Gaunt: Would you set up your own political party or would you join with Anne Marie Waters?
Tommy Robinson: Possibly, the only answer to this is a political movement that gives the British public an opportunity to vote for a party that is going to put the British public first.
Jon Gaunt: Ok, Jason Farrel, the man who interviewed you at Sky. Should he and his producer be sacked?
Tommy Robinson: Of course, one hundred percent. I think he’s gone into hiding hasn’t he? He hasn’t appeared on one thing since that, he hasn’t tweeted. Let me clarify.
Jon Gaunt: Let me clarify, you’re calling for Jason Farrell to be sacked from Sky News?
Tommy Robinson: He should be sacked and sky News should be prosecuted. That’s the reality of it. They have invented a headline. They have slandered me across the world and said I said things I didn’t.
It’s unbelievable, the epitome of fake news.
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