United Germany is celebrating the 25th anniversary of the demise of the Berlin Wall, which used to be a symbol of the Cold War, separating Western Europe from the communist Eastern Block. Quarter of century after the Berlin Wall was demolished, the lessons of the divided Europe have not been learned with new divisive lines emerging between post-communist Russia and the post-Cold War Europe.
Studio guest Alexander Domrin, Professor of High School of Economics, Pavel Palaschenko, Soviet diplomat, head of the International relations department of the Gorbachev Fund, who worked as a personal translator of President Gorbachev, Victor Grossman, American journalist and author, is a resident of East Berlin for many years, and Fabian Frommann, Berlin resident, witness of the demise of The Berlin Wall, shared their opinions with Radio VR.
You are the first American citizen who deserted to East Germany. Tell us a little bit about that? What made you do it?
Victor Grossman: During the McCarthy era, when everybody who was in any way left-leaning had difficulties, I was drafted into the US army during the Korean War and because of fear I concealed the fact that I've been active in the left-wing organizations. I was sent not to Korea, but to West Germany, to Bavaria and my concealment was discovered. And facing a possible sentence of five years in a military prison, I decided to desert.
From point of view, what was the key factor for the symbol of the Cold War to go into history?
Victor Grossman: I think that both strong forces in the West Germany and in the US both contributed. In West Germany the big-big companies who’d been thrown out of East Germany – all the big armament companies, the banks, the chemical companies – they had all been thrown out, the ones who were guilty of the WW II and of building Auschwitz. They had been thrown out and they had never been satisfied with losing their property here.
At the same time, the US, most clearly in the role of a man called General Vernon Walters, who was involved in every coup and putsch that the US was involved in, from Iran in the 1950’es till Fiji in the 1980’es, he was the Ambassador to West Germany during the time when the wall fell. I think that both the interests in the US and in the West Germany combined, to get rid of this little uncomfortable German Democratic Republic, which was a barrier to their further expansion eastward.
What about the role of Mikhail Gorbachev and the ideas of glasnost and perestroika?
Victor Grossman: As far as Gorbachev goes, many people, including myself, in the East Berlin, in the GDR were very enthusiastic at first, because it seemed that he was leading to a peaceful settlement. But gradually, we came to realize that Gorbachev was practically giving up any connection not only with eastern Europe, but with Africa, with Latin America. And in order to bolster the difficult times in the Soviet Union, he was sort of letting us go. And since there was a great deal of dissatisfaction in the East Germany at that time, these combined. And this dissatisfaction was used to get people to drop their support for the German Democratic Republic.
What do you remember the most from that day?
Fabian Frommann: I kind of didn’t recognized that the Berlin Wall came down on the 9th of November. But the next night, from the 10th to the 11th of November me and two friends of mine went to the Brandenburg Gates to see what was happening there. There were a lot of people, big crowds everywhere and I remember that there was a very nice atmosphere. People were happy and very excited.
Was it an emotional time for you, as a 16-year-old West Berliner?
Fabian Frommann: Yes, at that time I wasn’t interested in politics. And I was hardly aware that there was a wall at all. So, at the moment when the fact that there was a wall came into my knowledge and it came down already, there wasn’t much change for me.
How did the life change in Berlin?
Fabian Frommann: A lot things changed. For example, as the former West Berliner I could go outside Berlin and visit the villages next to it. And that wasn’t possible before. Nowadays, whenever I wish to, I can go for a trip to the countryside. And this is of course very nice.
Quarter a century after that, do you think that Germany was able to heal the wounds of that rift and really emerge as one nation?
Fabian Frommann: This is totally my personal feeling, but I remember that in the following years, after the wall came down this was a big issue – the West Germans against the East Germans. As far as I can tell, this has changed and this is not so much of a topic anymore.
Mikhail Gorbachev is going to travel to Berlin to take part in the celebrations commemorating the 25th anniversary of the fall of the wall this weekend. What meetings will he have and what he would be discussing?
Pavel Palaschenko: It is not a diplomatic visit. He’s been invited by the Mayor of Berlin to attend the celebration. He’ll also be speaking at the New Policy Forum that he established a few years. The meeting in Berlin would be on the occasion of this anniversary, but also to discuss the current situation. You will hear his speech, he will have a lot to say. And there will also be some media interviews.
So, I don’t want in any way predict what he is going to say. He’s given an interview to Interfax in which he said that he wants to defend Russia, because he believes that Russia has not been treated fairly in this situation and he wants to urge the sanctions to be lifted. He has the position on these issues and, I'm sure, he will speak out.
You were the witness of those events shaping up the history. Can you recall some of the episodes that stroke you most of all?
Pavel Palaschenko: There were many episodes. And some of those episodes I think indicate that a lot of the things that were happening at that time were quite unexpected not only for Gorbachev, for us, but also for the Western leaders. When the wall fell, thing began developing at a very rapid pace.
And President Bush indicated to President Gorbachev at the Malta Summit that he doesn’t want to take advantage of this situation to the detriment of Gorbachev and the Soviet Union. He literally said – I will not be jumping on that wall. That is to say that he didn’t want to make any theatrical gestures that will not be helpful, that would perhaps embarrass Gorbachev.
And then, when things began to move very fast, I remember there was an important meeting where they discussed how to handle it. I think it was the end of January or the early February 1990. And it was then that it was decided that the Soviet Union would not seek to prevent the unification of Germany. I think this probably was the most important thing that happened during this entire period.
What are the major lessons of that anniversary for the post-communist world?
Pavel Palaschenko: The walls certainly don’t solve the problems, there has to be a political process.
